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Post by nash16 on Jun 15, 2018 11:32:38 GMT
The ending felt as patronising as Ivo van Hove's coda at the end of Network with the footage of the Presidents. Why don't these directors trust that we've "got" it? A coda is a concluding section and Network had already concluded. You could call it a postscript, I suppose.
It wasn't patronising although it was a deliberate provocation and it was good to see the few there who laud the rise of populist nationalism being suitably angry. Personally, I want action rather than words as we are sleepwalking to disaster and people need to go further than just nodding along.
Van Hove did a production of 'The Fountainhead' exhibiting the pathetic, whinging 'student politics' of Ayn Rand, so he's not just provocative in one direction.
Coda: "a concluding event, remark, or section." IT may have not been patronising, but your reply definitely was! 😂😂😂
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jun 15, 2018 12:02:30 GMT
A coda is a concluding section and Network had already concluded. You could call it a postscript, I suppose.
It wasn't patronising although it was a deliberate provocation and it was good to see the few there who laud the rise of populist nationalism being suitably angry. Personally, I want action rather than words as we are sleepwalking to disaster and people need to go further than just nodding along.
Van Hove did a production of 'The Fountainhead' exhibiting the pathetic, whinging 'student politics' of Ayn Rand, so he's not just provocative in one direction.
Coda: "a concluding event, remark, or section." IT may have not been patronising, but your reply definitely was! 😂😂😂 Just trying to be accurate (or are you a Randian?) !
For the record, I was being absolutely patronising to the sort of soft liberal who tuts and frets about something without doing anything more active. So, absolutely, if that was the reference.
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Post by nash16 on Jun 15, 2018 17:30:22 GMT
Coda: "a concluding event, remark, or section." IT may have not been patronising, but your reply definitely was! 😂😂😂 Just trying to be accurate (or are you a Randian?) !
For the record, I was being absolutely patronising to the sort of soft liberal who tuts and frets about something without doing anything more active. So, absolutely, if that was the reference.
Wow.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jun 15, 2018 17:53:43 GMT
Just trying to be accurate (or are you a Randian?) !
For the record, I was being absolutely patronising to the sort of soft liberal who tuts and frets about something without doing anything more active. So, absolutely, if that was the reference.
Wow. I thought I was agreeing with you! The NT audience seems, more than not, to be middle class liberal. Happy to pay lip service to radical politics but nothing more. So putting in the Trump appearance allows for a bit of safe self righteous indignation. I’m not sure I’d call that patronising on Van Hove’s part but more akin to pandering.
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Post by foxa on Jul 7, 2018 22:08:41 GMT
How enjoyable to see something really good in the Olivier - an absolutely genius play. I'd only ever read it, so was so happy to see it and in such a fine production. P.S. A Mexican artist, Sodi, constructed a wall made of long specially crafted and signed bricks in front of the National. When we arrived they were letting people choose a brick and take it away in a special canvas bag. I have FOMO (fear of missing out) and wanted one, but my husband convinced me that it wasn't worth carting around the National and into the cloakroom, so I left it. BUT there were still some left when we got out of the play, so I chose one (was filmed selecting it) and got my free brick, canvas bag and certificate. Luckily I've been working out with weights because it was bloody heavy and we had a walk/train/bus to get home. But 'Ta Dah!' a special political piece of art for my garden. observer.com/2018/07/bosco-sodi-erects-a-brick-border-wall-for-london-art-night-2018/
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Post by tmesis on Jul 8, 2018 15:30:48 GMT
I enjoyed this at yesterday's matinee, strong cast and atmospheric set. I'd never seen the play before, and knew little about it. I thought it a good play but I just don't get that it's a work of genius or, a masterpiece.
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Post by foxa on Jul 9, 2018 9:46:18 GMT
I'm glad you enjoyed it, tmesis. Just for fun, let me argue my point for the genius/masterpiece stuff.
Friel transports us to a place/time about which I knew very little (rural Ireland of 1833, hedge schools) - right there, fascinating choice It could so easily have been simply English bad, Irish nationalists good. But instead, Friel gives us a rich varied piece where you have the extreme English bad (with the seen character of Lancey) and the extreme Irish nationalist bad (the unseen Donnelly twins) and in between, with all the major characters, you have the whole range of three-dimensional, sympathetic people caught in between. There are about five characters in it for whom I feel deeply and see no easy solutions - so that in itself is unusual. Add to that his use of language - both in his enjoyment of it, his diction, turn of phrase, but also what it represents (am sure many a doctoral thesis has been done on this.) And his humour - at a very dark moment, he willed me to laughter when a Beckettian tramp character is musing about marrying Athena ('But I find myself wondering is she is human enough for me or am I GODLIKE enough for her.') It also has one of the most beautiful love scenes ever. And the relationship between the father and his sons (both of whom are so beautifully characterised - often a single line telling you so much - Owen's self-loathing on 'They pay me', the whole story of Manus's relationship with his father summed up in his saying he paid for the books by the slaughtering of a pet lamb.)
I can't think of a playwright writing now who can do so much, so well.
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Post by mallardo on Jul 9, 2018 11:05:12 GMT
Well said, foxa - I agree with you, especially about that love scene, beautiful in its conception and, in this case, so beautifully played by the actors.
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Post by lynette on Jul 9, 2018 17:34:29 GMT
You don’t have to argue with me, foxa, I think Translations is a masterpiece.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 21:10:08 GMT
In many ways Butterworth’s Ferryman owes a debt to the writing of Brian Friel and Seamus Heaney (especially the Bog poems). I thought this was a canonical work until I saw this production which seemed to drain all the energy out of the first act as did the lack of an urgent context.
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Post by lynette on Jul 9, 2018 21:35:09 GMT
In many ways Butterworth’s Ferryman owes a debt to the writing of Brian Friel and Seamus Heaney (especially the Bog poems). I thought this was a canonical work until I saw this production which seemed to drain all the energy out of the first act as did the lack of an urgent context. Well for a start the director might have read the programme in which Friel is quoted as to his intentions. Of course we can reinterpret a play. They do it with Wille all the time but here I think the director is wilfully ignoring the beauty of the work and trying to cram it into a political tin it doesn't fit into. And when will directors realise that we punters are well able to understand the inferences of a play as written. We do not need a big directorial finger shoved up our noses. As it were.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 15:18:57 GMT
The matinee today was completely ruined by a high pitched noise throughout much of the first act. I wondered if it was a bizarre alienation effect at first, but then just felt sicker and sicker. Sometimes it would stop, and I could hear a soundtrack of birds and try and get back into the play (which I thought was rather beautiful and reminded me of “Our Country’s Good” in terms of tone.
Turns out some idiot had taken her hearing aid out and left it switched on and it was interfering with the sound.
I’ve never experienced this before. NT refunded me, said today’s the last day so they couldn’t offer an alternative date. I think the 40 other people who queued to complain in the interval went back in. I have no idea how, maybe they don’t get migraines like me.
Am feeling sick and angry and very very uncharitable towards that woman.
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 11, 2018 17:00:30 GMT
The matinee today was completely ruined by a high pitched noise throughout much of the first act. I wondered if it was a bizarre alienation effect at first, but then just felt sicker and sicker. Sometimes it would stop, and I could hear a soundtrack of birds and try and get back into the play (which I thought was rather beautiful and reminded me of “Our Country’s Good” in terms of tone. Turns out some idiot had taken her hearing aid out and left it switched on and it was interfering with the sound. I’ve never experienced this before. NT refunded me, said today’s the last day so they couldn’t offer an alternative date. I think the 40 other people who queued to complain in the interval went back in. I have no idea how, maybe they don’t get migraines like me. Am feeling sick and angry and very very uncharitable towards that woman. I was there this afternoon and had no issues with sound, not withstanding the fact I was in the front row, I know there were issues as the stage manager addressed the audience after the interval. Easy mistake to make, but imagine so annoying for the people affected. The set was dark and bleak and captures beautifully the Irish peat bogs of the 1830’s in the Connemar/Donegal area. Brian Friel once he pops his clogs, will be remembered as one of those great Irish playwrights and will join the list with his this play is nothing short of genius and proves the author is a true visionary. The ending has been updated to put a modern slant on it, with imperial rule from the British empire for most of the play and how Irish individualism was squashed and British troops destroying Irish income (agriculture) under the guise of a British troop going missing to today with Brexit looming and the possibility of a hard boarder. Also some tremendous acting top notch, thought Laurence Kinkan was brilliant. 4 Stars
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 17:24:17 GMT
Apparently someone got up and left after the announcement, according to my friend who stayed.
Am still very grumpy. May have a large gin and tonic once I have put my daughter to bed.
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Post by barrowside on Aug 11, 2018 18:34:36 GMT
The matinee today was completely ruined by a high pitched noise throughout much of the first act. I wondered if it was a bizarre alienation effect at first, but then just felt sicker and sicker. Sometimes it would stop, and I could hear a soundtrack of birds and try and get back into the play (which I thought was rather beautiful and reminded me of “Our Country’s Good” in terms of tone. Turns out some idiot had taken her hearing aid out and left it switched on and it was interfering with the sound. I’ve never experienced this before. NT refunded me, said today’s the last day so they couldn’t offer an alternative date. I think the 40 other people who queued to complain in the interval went back in. I have no idea how, maybe they don’t get migraines like me. Am feeling sick and angry and very very uncharitable towards that woman. I was there this afternoon and had no issues with sound, not withstanding the fact I was in the front row, I know there were issues as the stage manager addressed the audience after the interval. Easy mistake to make, but imagine so annoying for the people affected. The set was dark and bleak and captures beautifully the Irish peat bogs of the 1830’s in the Connemar/Donegal area. Brian Friel once he pops his clogs, will be remembered as one of those great Irish playwrights and will join the list with his this play is nothing short of genius and proves the author is a true visionary. The ending has been updated to put a modern slant on it, with imperial rule from the British empire for most of the play and how Irish individualism was squashed and British troops destroying Irish income (agriculture) under the guise of a British troop going missing to today with Brexit looming and the possibility of a hard boarder. Also some tremendous acting top notch, thought Laurence Kinkan was brilliant. 4 Stars
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Post by barrowside on Aug 11, 2018 18:36:38 GMT
Alas Brian Friel has already died a few years ago. He is most probably regarded as the finest Irish playwright with four masterpieces, Philadelphia, Here I Come!, Translations, Faith Healer and Dancing at Lughnasa and a large canon of other very fine works.
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Post by Phantom of London on Aug 12, 2018 0:07:45 GMT
Yes he did die and that was quite recent, I remember him being alive, that’s why I thought he was still going.
He can now enter the lexicon of great Irish playwrights.
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Post by dave72 on Aug 12, 2018 1:33:53 GMT
He was a great Irish playwright long before he died.
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Post by lem on Aug 12, 2018 10:43:13 GMT
The matinee today was completely ruined by a high pitched noise throughout much of the first act. I wondered if it was a bizarre alienation effect at first, but then just felt sicker and sicker. Sometimes it would stop, and I could hear a soundtrack of birds and try and get back into the play (which I thought was rather beautiful and reminded me of “Our Country’s Good” in terms of tone. Turns out some idiot had taken her hearing aid out and left it switched on and it was interfering with the sound. I’ve never experienced this before. NT refunded me, said today’s the last day so they couldn’t offer an alternative date. I think the 40 other people who queued to complain in the interval went back in. I have no idea how, maybe they don’t get migraines like me. Am feeling sick and angry and very very uncharitable towards that woman. I was in the circle and the noise was quite annoying - I did wonder if it was a deliberate effect or just my ears playing up. The second act was fine so obviously the announcement from the SM at the end of the interval had the desired effect. Enjoyed the play but it felt to me like the writer ran out of material at the end - maybe I just missed the point, but it seemed to stop rather abruptly with a lack of any conclusion.
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Post by crowblack on Nov 28, 2018 0:06:44 GMT
I've just seen a Twitter thread pondering whether the playwright Frank McGuinness, who adapted Dancing at Lughnasa for the screen, is the same Frank McGuinness who penned an episode of Lexx -the Dark Zone. IMDB appears to confirm this, though IMDB isn't gospel. Can it possibly be true?
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Post by peelee on Nov 29, 2018 21:18:59 GMT
It is likely to be true. In writing terms he seems to have done all sorts of projects.
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Post by intoanewlife on Dec 18, 2019 0:01:48 GMT
Saw this today, I loved the first part, but it lost me completely in the second act.
Beautiful staging and great performances though.
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Post by intoanewlife on Dec 18, 2019 0:04:46 GMT
I don’t buy a programme usually nowadays but this time I did. It does have some good stuff in it including a diary written by Friel about the writing of this play. He says at one point that it is not political but it is all about the language and then again that he does not favour concept plays. ( hear that David Hare?) but then what does the NT do? Plonk a purely political ending ( don’t we love a lighting change and good clange noise to imdicate prisons?) which isn’t in the text right there at the end. As if we are incapable of making our own judgements, an insult to Hinds who delivers the last speech with such accomplishment and frankly, daft. It is all about the language and that says it all. We can open up our minds to the suggestions that makes and to the whole colonialism, repression , everything will come forward so why do the NT bods think we are so stupid? The audience was full of young people. It must still be lurking on the A level syllabus then. It is a masterpiece and here, very well done except for that last moment. They just couldn’t help themselves could they? The ending felt as patronising as Ivo van Hove's coda at the end of Network with the footage of the Presidents. Why don't these directors trust that we've "got" it? You didn't 'get' Fairview...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2019 0:14:24 GMT
Saw it this evening and found it pretty interminable, I’m afraid.
It may just be that I have a monster cold and spent most of the overlong first half fighting the urge to cough, but I honestly think I’d have felt the same if I was in good health.
It just seemed to be a bunch of bumpkins wittering endlessly at each other about not very much at all, interspersed with some genuinely interesting moments about the value and meaning of language, and the promise of a he-fancies-her-but-she-fancies-the-other-guy confrontation that never came (for the audience anyway).
I understood what they were doing by ending with the armed guys but I really didn’t grasp what prompted the closing declamation.
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Post by intoanewlife on Dec 18, 2019 0:36:30 GMT
Saw it this evening and found it pretty interminable, I’m afraid. It may just be that I have a monster cold and spent most of the overlong first half fighting the urge to cough, but I honestly think I’d have felt the same if I was in good health. It just seemed to be a bunch of bumpkins wittering endlessly at each other about not very much at all, interspersed with some genuinely interesting moments about the value and meaning of language, and the promise of a he-fancies-her-but-she-fancies-the-other-guy confrontation that never came (for the audience anyway). I understood what they were doing by ending with the armed guys but I really didn’t grasp what prompted the closing declamation. The first half took a while to get going, but the latter parts of it were really interesting, entertaining and set up a really good premise for what was to come. The second act was melodramatic, silly, lazy and pointless.
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Post by nash16 on Dec 18, 2019 2:27:15 GMT
The ending felt as patronising as Ivo van Hove's coda at the end of Network with the footage of the Presidents. Why don't these directors trust that we've "got" it? You didn't 'get' Fairview... Wow again! Are you stalking my old comments on different threads now? (moderators, can anything be done about her?) I would also advise keeping Fairview comments on the Fairview thread. It's why we have different threads for things.
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Post by intoanewlife on Dec 18, 2019 2:50:31 GMT
You didn't 'get' Fairview... Wow again! Are you stalking my old comments on different threads now? (moderators, can anything be done about her?) I would also advise keeping Fairview comments on the Fairview thread. It's why we have different threads for things. LOL I was just kidding, lighten up x
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Post by David J on Dec 18, 2019 9:02:12 GMT
Well I’m going to put my two cents here and say I’d take Fryl to give me a dose of politics over the ton of plays that come out these days. He’s a bit like Chekhov and Ibsen where he writes about people and their lives who react to what’s going on in the world
It’s more subtle that way where the politics seep through the floor boards and the audience is left to discuss what they saw. I’d rather see that than a play where the playwright outright says whatever trending issue he’s going to address or make a big ham fisted coup de theatre by the end
Which is why I felt the ending took away from what was otherwise an interesting and occasionally poignant play
I agree the play slows down at times. It suddenly picked up for me when Fra Free turned up. That lad needs more attention because he works everyone beautifully and even when he’s not talking I enjoyed watching the facial acting he gives
I also enjoyed the moments between the locals and the soldiers trying to understand one another and the scenes between Owen and George working out how to anglicise the places names. A brilliant example of how to drive home your message
The acting all round I can’t complain.
Also the scene between George and moira is one of the most heart felt moments I’ve seen all year. It’s just a shame that, like previous posts have said, I couldn’t understand what happened between scenes in act 2
So yes this is a mixed bag. Not one of friels best and I could have done without the ending. But otherwise something I’m happy to have seen elevated by the acting
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Post by londonpostie on Dec 18, 2019 10:19:56 GMT
Saw it last year and last week, at the NT. On both occasions I thought it was so poignant and very cleverly crafted; a celebration of language but also an accessible dissertation on culture, identity and colonialism - what are you supposed to do in the face of 'progress', fight it or embrace it - here, literally. Answers on a postcard from all parts of the globe.
A very excellent achievement here by the now departed Brian Friel.
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Post by intoanewlife on Dec 18, 2019 11:18:23 GMT
I loved it up until the Moira/George scene (which as others have said was just beautiful), then it just became confusing after that.
The girl is running around the stage and the next minute the brother is leaving town and George is missing. Was he meant to have seen them or not because we never saw that? Then the soldiers turn up and say they are going to destroy the entire area if he is not found. Really? Would they have REALLY done that because one soldier went missing? Or are we to take it that was their plan all along and they were just using this event as a catalyst? Then the Father starts babbling about something I couldn't hear very well, and then it was all over.
It all just felt like such a contrast to Act 1 which despite taking a while to warm up, was so beautifully written and interesting. In the end I was left feeling a bit baffled instead of shaken like I think I was supposed to when those lights came on.
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