885 posts
|
Post by lonlad on Oct 12, 2017 8:39:38 GMT
The 3 star reviews from Time Out and The Arts Desk are exactly right - both critics get it perfectly. And the Heff is simply wonderful, as he always is.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 9:23:20 GMT
Turns out I'm not done! Shenton has also produced one of the most lazy reviews I've seen in a long time. That wouldn't wash with any of the editors I work with and hell I wouldn't let it was on my own blog. And this is a man who gets paid (probably too much) to review. My goat is well and truly got this morning.
Also I was on the fence about George, but I'm bloody determined to like it now just to spite Shenton. And the toliets.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 9:35:03 GMT
I'm always baffled by the apparent size of Shenton's ego, which seems out of all proportion to his job and influence - I mean, The Stage is hardly widely read, is it? It's basically a parish newsletter.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 9:38:24 GMT
Shenton's review isn't even for The Stage, Natasha Tripney wrote that one. (I'll be watching with interest to see if all the people who thought her 2* review for Young Frankenstein was just flat-out wrong will be rushing to argue with her 2* review for this one...)
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 10:04:27 GMT
ALSO (I'm on a full on St George rant now...) I don't doubt it's got problems, from what I've read (will decide for myself on Saturday) But I'm also getting a bit sick of 'Critic Twitter' falling over themselves to be the most 'edgy' and only down with 'boundary pushing' theatre. Which usually only involves an obscure Fringe theatre and a short run that most of us won't get to see. I've seen it both with St George and Heisenberg this week, both worthy of critique and certainly not perfect plays. But I'm sick of the one-upmanship (PERSONship before they call me out on that) to be the most 'Intelligent' by which mainly a lot of writers mean 'trying to prove I'm more clever than you if you like this play'
It's entirely possible to 'like' a play and reasonably discuss it's flaws but also acknoledge it's valid said play and said production isn't the end of civilization as we know it, or a marker that every audience member who comes away thinking 'well that was ok I enjoyed that' is somehow 'stupid'
This is a slightly off topic rant but this play has already brought some of that into focus...
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 10:22:16 GMT
God
Another new play in the Olivier
Gets a slating
It’s not good
After swathes of unsold tickets
For Common and Salome Now this
It’s a shame the shows are all Travelex ones
As if the theatre don’t give a sh*t
About the quality of them anymore
|
|
1,093 posts
|
Post by samuelwhiskers on Oct 12, 2017 10:33:55 GMT
It's a clever idea, but clever ideas do not good 2.45hr plays make. Apart from the initial dragon slaying scene the direction is turgid and painfully literal. Without Hef and Bleach's camp off it would be a real slog.
The NT do need to do something about the queue situation. It wasn't just the late start, it was the unprofessional manner it was handled. You'd think at some point they'd stop acting so unprepared every single press night.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 10:38:41 GMT
It's a clever idea, but clever ideas do not good 2.45hr plays make. Apart from the initial dragon slaying scene the direction is turgid and painfully literal. Without Hef and Bleach's camp off it would be a real slog. The NT do need to do something about the queue situation. It wasn't just the late start, it was the unprofessional manner it was handled. You'd think at some point they'd stop acting so unprepared every single press night. The venue is becoming so scummy So many awful shows Horrible cheap atmosphere I really may withdraw my support
|
|
|
Post by Jan on Oct 12, 2017 11:22:59 GMT
God Another new play in the Olivier Gets a slating It’s not good After swathes of unsold tickets For Common and Salome Now this It’s a shame the shows are all Travelex ones As if the theatre don’t give a sh*t About the quality of them anymore To me it looks like they Travelex shows they think will be unpopular to boost attendance a bit. I think it is probably counterproductive as casual or fist time theatregoers lured in by low prices may end up never going again.
|
|
294 posts
|
Post by dani on Oct 12, 2017 13:40:08 GMT
Turns out I'm not done! Shenton has also produced one of the most lazy reviews I've seen in a long time. That wouldn't wash with any of the editors I work with and hell I wouldn't let it was on my own blog. And this is a man who gets paid (probably too much) to review. My goat is well and truly got this morning. Also I was on the fence about George, but I'm bloody determined to like it now just to spite Shenton. And the toliets. "Rory Mullarkey offers an appropriately larky stage version of the legend". I see what he did there! Shame there wasn't any "mull"ing involved in Shenton's critique.
|
|
1,465 posts
|
Post by foxa on Oct 12, 2017 13:51:37 GMT
I agree, a lazy review. I would put the play between 2 and 3 stars, so it's not that I thought his rating was way off - it was, as dani says, 'the mulling.' To have a go at Julian Bleach (who IMO gave one of the best performances) of over-acting the Dragon. Really? How small and naturalistic did he want the Dragon performance to be?
I think the National is going through a funny patch at the moment, but I do have a fondness for it. I love the big public spaces (there's a good poster exhibition on in one of them at the moment) and though there are lots of flops there are some winners too....
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 14:50:40 GMT
Turns out I'm not done! Shenton has also produced one of the most lazy reviews I've seen in a long time. That wouldn't wash with any of the editors I work with and hell I wouldn't let it was on my own blog. And this is a man who gets paid (probably too much) to review. My goat is well and truly got this morning. Also I was on the fence about George, but I'm bloody determined to like it now just to spite Shenton. And the toliets. "Rory Mullarkey offers an appropriately larky stage version of the legend". I see what he did there! Shame there wasn't any "mull"ing involved in Shenton's critique. You can see why he made such a fuss about his his +1 for press nights a while ago, when he has such deep thoughts to bounce off his lucky guest...
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 14:50:42 GMT
I guess if birds are the living descendants of dinosaurs, and our idea of a dinosaur isn't that far off from our idea of a dragon, then you could do a lot worse than hang out with some angry chickens for a day or two.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 14:51:37 GMT
How small and naturalistic did he want the Dragon performance to be? More to the point, how do you study the natural movement of a mythical creature (that is stoned most of the time, anyway, if Puff is to be believed). I'm Welsh, the place is lousy with Dragons. Can confirm they're all stoned in the mountains talking about how blue the sky is. It's the only way we get anything done around here.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 14:53:16 GMT
I guess if birds are the living descendants of dinosaurs, and our idea of a dinosaur isn't that far off from our idea of a dragon, then you could do a lot worse than hang out with some angry chickens for a day or two. I mean just in general to be honest, you could do worse than a day with some angry chickens. Sure beats some colleagues I've had.
|
|
11 posts
|
Post by rmechanical on Oct 12, 2017 15:40:05 GMT
First an introduction, I found this forum in an effort to discover other people’s opinions on Saint George and the Dragon. I went to the second preview and found it to be the most buttock clenching boring time I have ever spent in the theatre. There were technical issues (mainly with the dragon) which I’m sure could/ were resolved, but the text and theme of the piece were both banal and listlessly delivered by a cast whose embarrassment at having to do so was easy to see. The point such as it was, having been made once was then repeated again and again. I’m sure people will say that is the point but when done with dialogue that appeared to emanate from a 6th form drama session it’s no wonder I longed for the sweet release of the final curtain. Does the NT not employ someone to take a look at scripts such as this and commit them to the fire except being so damp they would probably put it out. Were there any positives? The set was an ingenious use of the revolve The music was atmospheric. Julian Bleach was a camp cross between the Devil in Jerry Springer and Abanazar. There was one good joke about football. And as my mother used to say a bad play is better than no play at all. After Salome and Common, Rufus Norris is obviously on a mission to redecorate the Olivier by ensuring the house is fully papered. But a more succinct review goes to my companion “At least Common had a talking crow “
|
|
11 posts
|
Post by rmechanical on Oct 12, 2017 15:52:47 GMT
Thanks - or should that be in Common
|
|
4,960 posts
Member is Online
|
Post by TallPaul on Oct 13, 2017 12:51:24 GMT
Welcome to the board rmechanical . Now, you must look for a regular member called @parsley , I think you will have a lot in common . I'm not sure Mr Parsley will take kindly to being called 'regular'.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 12:56:31 GMT
Welcome to the board rmechanical . Now, you must look for a regular member called @parsley , I think you will have a lot in common . I'm not sure Mr Parsley will take kindly to being called 'regular'. Or indeed 'common' . . .
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 6:54:52 GMT
Well. I started to write something kind about an interesting idea, great committed performances, etc, but then I was too irritated.
It's not terrible but equally it's not in a fit state to be on at the NT. I keep reminding myself that I've seen some great things there over the last two years (Les Blancs is one of my top plays ever) and I expect every theatre to have the odd stinker. But quality control and judgement at the Nash is clearly going wrong somewhere. In an interview for his book (which I bought but confess I haven't even opened yet) Hytner talks about Greenland and can clearly and concisely pinpoint why it went wrong. I hope RN is learning from this and/or has a mentor to help him, because it's really depressing to sit in a half-empty Olivier and watch things that aren't up to scratch, especially when you've paid full whack in advance (which is a long way from bargainous) and you're surrounded by people waving their free tickets. Again, I remember interviews about Hytner mercilessly pushing and chivving and criticising Elliott during the last stages of War Horse and I wonder if RN is too nice or doesn't have the confidence to chivvy his colleagues in the way you probably have to in that role.
On another topic, it's weird that with the country so divided and facing the worst crisis since the war and held hostage by a few massive egos prepared to fight to the death within the Tory Party, etc, no theatre seems to be able to put on a decent play about it. Maybe it's too big and too soon?
|
|
92 posts
|
Post by chameleon on Oct 20, 2017 7:32:23 GMT
Well. I started to write something kind about an interesting idea, great committed performances, etc, but then I was too irritated. It's not terrible but equally it's not in a fit state to be on at the NT. I keep reminding myself that I've seen some great things there over the last two years (Les Blancs is one of my top plays ever) and I expect every theatre to have the odd stinker. But quality control and judgement at the Nash is clearly going wrong somewhere. In an interview for his book (which I bought but confess I haven't even opened yet) Hytner talks about Greenland and can clearly and concisely pinpoint why it went wrong. I hope RN is learning from this and/or has a mentor to help him, because it's really depressing to sit in a half-empty Olivier and watch things that aren't up to scratch, especially when you've paid full whack in advance (which is a long way from bargainous) and you're surrounded by people waving their free tickets. Again, I remember interviews about Hytner mercilessly pushing and chivving and criticising Elliott during the last stages of War Horse and I wonder if RN is too nice or doesn't have the confidence to chivvy his colleagues in the way you probably have to in that role. On another topic, it's weird that with the country so divided and facing the worst crisis since the war and held hostage by a few massive egos prepared to fight to the death within the Tory Party, etc, no theatre seems to be able to put on a decent play about it. Maybe it's too big and too soon? do you have a link for the interview about 'greenland'? thanks!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 8:49:47 GMT
chameleon - I can't find it and it may have been a platform I went to rather than a print interview (my memory isn't great). Essentially what he said was - they felt like they needed a play about climate change so they commissioned three writers to respond to a brief, then chopped up and messed around with what was presented and ended up with a dog's dinner. He contrasted it with the Royal Court play The Heretic, which was written because the writer was interested in a particular angle which was human and challenging and made people think, whereas the NT's was driven by the need to address an 'issue' rather than by a narrative so was just a mess. Probably very far from exact words but I think that was the flavour!
|
|
1,187 posts
|
Post by theatrelover123 on Oct 20, 2017 9:33:54 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Jan on Oct 20, 2017 11:39:18 GMT
Well. I started to write something kind about an interesting idea, great committed performances, etc, but then I was too irritated. It's not terrible but equally it's not in a fit state to be on at the NT. I keep reminding myself that I've seen some great things there over the last two years (Les Blancs is one of my top plays ever) and I expect every theatre to have the odd stinker. But quality control and judgement at the Nash is clearly going wrong somewhere. In an interview for his book (which I bought but confess I haven't even opened yet) Hytner talks about Greenland and can clearly and concisely pinpoint why it went wrong. I hope RN is learning from this and/or has a mentor to help him, because it's really depressing to sit in a half-empty Olivier and watch things that aren't up to scratch, especially when you've paid full whack in advance (which is a long way from bargainous) and you're surrounded by people waving their free tickets. Again, I remember interviews about Hytner mercilessly pushing and chivving and criticising Elliott during the last stages of War Horse and I wonder if RN is too nice or doesn't have the confidence to chivvy his colleagues in the way you probably have to in that role. On another topic, it's weird that with the country so divided and facing the worst crisis since the war and held hostage by a few massive egos prepared to fight to the death within the Tory Party, etc, no theatre seems to be able to put on a decent play about it. Maybe it's too big and too soon? Well of course it isn’t the worst crisis since the war, and you need to think how many great plays written about Suez, or the Cuban missile crisis, or the Winter of Discontent, or the oil crisis and three day week, or the miners’ strike, or Black Wednesday, or the Lehman crisis. Very few, though wel’ll see on the last of those.
|
|
|
Post by Honoured Guest on Oct 20, 2017 21:53:02 GMT
The Lehman Trilogy ends before the collapse of the bank.
And I think we are at the outset of the worst crisis since the Second World War. The UK is blunderingly withdrawing from political union with the rest of Europe, making it far more likely that, at any time, some moronic "leader" (Boris? Jacob?) will take us into conflict with the EU. And everything else in the world is at crisis point, or beyond it. We are all living on borrowed time. We are doomed.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 22:05:14 GMT
The Lehman Trilogy ends before the collapse of the bank.
And I think we are at the outset of the worst crisis since the Second World War. The UK is blunderingly withdrawing from political union with the rest of Europe, making it far more likely that, at any time, some moronic "leader" (Boris? Jacob?) will take us into conflict with the EU. And everything else in the world is at crisis point, or beyond it. We are all living on borrowed time. We are doomed. I am stockpiling chickpeas; I will have a few extra weeks of fibre while the food riots break out around me.
|
|
|
Post by Jan on Oct 21, 2017 3:47:23 GMT
The Lehman Trilogy ends before the collapse of the bank.
And I think we are at the outset of the worst crisis since the Second World War. The UK is blunderingly withdrawing from political union with the rest of Europe, making it far more likely that, at any time, some moronic "leader" (Boris? Jacob?) will take us into conflict with the EU. And everything else in the world is at crisis point, or beyond it. We are all living on borrowed time. We are doomed. That is why no-one can write a play about it - opinions are fixed and extreme. I remember when UK inflation reached 27% - puts the current panic over 3% into perspective.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2017 7:50:54 GMT
The Lehman Trilogy ends before the collapse of the bank.
And I think we are at the outset of the worst crisis since the Second World War. The UK is blunderingly withdrawing from political union with the rest of Europe, making it far more likely that, at any time, some moronic "leader" (Boris? Jacob?) will take us into conflict with the EU. And everything else in the world is at crisis point, or beyond it. We are all living on borrowed time. We are doomed. That is why no-one can write a play about it - opinions are fixed and extreme. I remember when UK inflation reached 27% - puts the current panic over 3% into perspective. But that's exactly why there should be a great play there - the material is fabulous. The first Christmas dinner after the referendum...
|
|
|
Post by Jan on Oct 21, 2017 7:54:58 GMT
That is why no-one can write a play about it - opinions are fixed and extreme. I remember when UK inflation reached 27% - puts the current panic over 3% into perspective. But that's exactly why there should be a great play there - the material is fabulous. The first Christmas dinner after the referendum... Of course Sir David Hare is threatening us with a new political play next year. Can’t wait.
|
|
1,119 posts
|
Post by martin1965 on Oct 21, 2017 8:29:38 GMT
The Lehman Trilogy ends before the collapse of the bank.
And I think we are at the outset of the worst crisis since the Second World War. The UK is blunderingly withdrawing from political union with the rest of Europe, making it far more likely that, at any time, some moronic "leader" (Boris? Jacob?) will take us into conflict with the EU. And everything else in the world is at crisis point, or beyond it. We are all living on borrowed time. We are doomed. That is why no-one can write a play about it - opinions are fixed and extreme. I remember when UK inflation reached 27% - puts the current panic over 3% into perspective. Indeed JB, lot of nonsense here.
|
|