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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Aug 13, 2018 20:06:49 GMT
Rule of thumb for a TV series - unless I see a body being sliced open on a slab or six foot under then the character is likely to come back from even the worst injuries or illness. Lydia’s as tough as old boot leather, being knifed in the back is a mere inconvenience.
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Post by alece10 on Jun 10, 2019 16:35:04 GMT
I just hope this series moves a bit quicker than the last one. They could have put the whole series into a 1 hour episode. Lots of staring at the camera close up.
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Post by peggs on Jun 10, 2019 17:14:48 GMT
Mixed views about this being back, feel have to watch but have to be in a resilient place or can be too grim. There are rather a lot of things at the mo that I've started and not even made through whole episode, years and years is like this, can just about to half an episode. Perhaps what I mean is there is a lack of light hearted but then I guess it's not really light hearted times.
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Post by justfran on Jun 10, 2019 22:02:49 GMT
I agree with you peggs - I really enjoyed the book from studying it at college and thought series one was excellent (series two less so) but it is quite dark/grim so I make sure to watch it then follow it with something a bit more lighthearted. This first episode was very slow, hope the rest of the series picks up.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jun 17, 2019 23:45:35 GMT
Have to agree now that the plot has slowed to snail's pace. On the other hand, the psychodramatic sadism has reached a new height with Aunt Lydia tazering June with the cattle prod, and the Commander looking at June's writhing and musing "I wonder how much voltage is in that" . You have to admire once again the minimalism in the way it presents such subject matter. I like the pace of it, it’s insidious and very much focused on character. I thought the same for Summer of Rockets which someone else thought was slow. I thought the same of Three Sisters which others thought was slow. I’m sensing a pattern here (I like heavily plotted shows as well but like a mixture).
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Post by justfran on Jul 15, 2019 20:03:59 GMT
This series has been so slow and I wasn’t sure it was going to pick up in terms of quality but last night’s episode has given me some hope, it was very good. Lots of seeds dropped to develop over the next few episodes.
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Post by justfran on Jul 16, 2019 18:35:49 GMT
Serena-Joy is now a ticking bomb for a start. Indeed. What do we all think about the Nick revelations?
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jul 17, 2019 10:08:06 GMT
I don't think he's trusted by either side, but there are so many contradictions. If he was a distinguished soldier, why didn't he get elevated to "Commander" immediately the revolution ended? Why, when we first met him, was he a known "eye"? Now, the tape saying it is his and June's is public knowledge in the higher ranks, yet he has had no sanctions for it. Wondering if he is in fact a "honey trap" for June and will turn out to be the son of the highest ranking Church commander, explaining why he is untouchable. They don’t need a honeytrap, they can convict and execute without anything resembling a fair trial. On who gets to do what or who knows what, it’s a fascist state, it is only relevant if those in charge decide it is so. The cracks in the dam are there but, as we can see from a part of a world that has elected a racist president who would be quite happy in fomenting a race war, all that matters is if they retain their usefulness in maintaining power.
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Post by kathryn on Jul 17, 2019 11:32:34 GMT
I’m not sure this series is actually that well-plotted - I rather suspect Nick’s status as war-hero/terrorist is a ret-con designer to throw up a road-block to resolving the baby story, which is already stretching credulity.
In a world where babies are so precious and rare that people stop and stare at one in a hospital, and six children in a room together is breathtaking, there is no way that Canada would contemplate handing the baby back. They actively want as many babies as they can get their hands on! Gilead can talk and threaten until blue in the face. If they’ve got the military capabilities to invade they will do so anyway, there’s no appeasing religious fundamentalists - giving the baby back or not will make no difference at all.
I am growing a bit tired of the way the series has inflated Gilead’s Military capabilities - the original book made it quite clear that all the religious propaganda was required precisely because it didn’t have the strength it was trying to project. Like most isolationist fundamentalist states it can’t adequately feed its population and is on the brink of collapse - they find the Handmaid’s tale after the regime has already collapsed, and there’s the strong sense that you should know much of what she is told by the regime was lies.
I don’t know where this series will ultimately end up - they seem to be building Gilead up too much as a power at the moment to actually play through its collapse.
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Post by spendleb on Jul 17, 2019 13:01:57 GMT
Is this the last season or is there another one?
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Post by sf on Jul 17, 2019 14:03:30 GMT
Is this the last season or is there another one?
It's (very) likely to be renewed for a fourth season, but nothing has been announced yet.
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Post by Cardinal Pirelli on Jul 17, 2019 14:22:08 GMT
I’m not sure this series is actually that well-plotted - I rather suspect Nick’s status as war-hero/terrorist is a ret-con designer to throw up a road-block to resolving the baby story, which is already stretching credulity. In a world where babies are so precious and rare that people stop and stare at one in a hospital, and six children in a room together is breathtaking, there is no way that Canada would contemplate handing the baby back. They actively want as many babies as they can get their hands on! Gilead can talk and threaten until blue in the face. If they’ve got the military capabilities to invade they will do so anyway, there’s no appeasing religious fundamentalists - giving the baby back or not will make no difference at all. I am growing a bit tired of the way the series has inflated Gilead’s Military capabilities - the original book made it quite clear that all the religious propaganda was required precisely because it didn’t have the strength it was trying to project. Like most isolationist fundamentalist states it can’t adequately feed its population and is on the brink of collapse - they find the Handmaid’s tale after the regime has already collapsed, and there’s the strong sense that you should know much of what she is told by the regime was lies. I don’t know where this series will ultimately end up - they seem to be building Gilead up too much as a power at the moment to actually play through its collapse. Nick's background has always been very grey, we know next to nothing about him (I can't recall seeing if there have been any flashbacks for him). That has most definitely been on purpose and planned for. As far as how other countries treat Gilead then we only have to see how our governments treat powerful states that have shocking human rights records (Saudi, for example, whose treatment of women is appalling). Of course, they'd negotiate handing the baby back if they thought it would make Canada safer, that's how governments work. I'm not sure looking to the book is much use at this point, given how it has diverted already, the map seen earlier shows that it has already exploded a handful of nuclear weapons on its own territory (mostly California, which presumably was seen as a prime place to bring under control quickly) and, given how many nuclear weapons the USA has, they will have a lot left to threaten others with. The 'colonies' and their toxic environment look as though they were caused by these explosions (they appear to be mostly the 'flyover' states). They have nuclear weapons and are happy to use them, and that's as much military capability as they need. How did the iron curtain fall? By the revolt of its own people, backed by regime members who saw which way the wind was blowing. That looks like the most likely way for Gilead to fall. Other countries may have their spies embedded in the regime but only when they sense a popular revolt will they make decisive moves.
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Post by sf on Jul 17, 2019 14:53:04 GMT
There was talk of a 7 season arc, but my guess is that 4 would be enough at most, unless her new book provides amazing new material. The new book is apparently set very firmly outside the TV series's timeline, and it's not the kind of TV series that could easily sustain a 15-year time jump.
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Post by kathryn on Jul 17, 2019 17:42:52 GMT
Good points all kathryn. My guess is that only Gilead really has the fertility issue, but they are made to think it is global. The military thing, well, as you say, we know it collapses. We also know military states like Russia and North Korea put on a good show to hide the truths, and that's what's going on here, perhaps? There was talk of a 7 season arc, but my guess is that 4 would be enough at most, unless her new book provides amazing new material. The first season made it absolutely clear that the fertility issue is global - remember Mexico sending a delegation and considering taking Handmaids? Now, in the book - which i agree is an unreliable guide to the show’s trajectory - I would say that it was debatable whether the fertility issue was global.
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Post by alece10 on Jul 22, 2019 19:25:04 GMT
Well this series is as slow as the previous ones and I'm still confused. But I thinking back to the last series and there were scenes of women in a kind of concentration camp digging the earth. But it never really explained what that was all about and it didn't seem to tie in with anything else. Can anyone explain what that was about please?
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Post by peggs on Jul 22, 2019 20:39:13 GMT
Wasn't that the colonies? Or did I get that wrong? You basically get sent there and die under the work/decamination?
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Post by lynette on Jul 24, 2019 11:33:01 GMT
She keeps 'em doing. Apparently the latest novel by Attwood and put up for the Booker prize, continues the saga.
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Post by peggs on Jul 26, 2019 19:44:56 GMT
So if handmaids are those woman who have proven fertility and/or haven't proved infertile but have done something wrong, an affair, being gay etc. martha's are what non fertile have done something wrong? the real 'sinners' get sent to the colonies, the dutiful but unimportant are allowed to stay as families and do prescribed jobs (until they break a rule and get executed and their kids taken), the powerful are the commanders and their wifes. so who are the aunts? Not powerful but not sinners but have suggested support for the system?
And the super commander in DC, is he hitting on fred?
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Post by justfran on Jul 27, 2019 11:31:37 GMT
And the super commander in DC, is he hitting on fred? I thought this a couple of episodes ago when they were playing pool. Maybe this will be part of his downfall. . . Surely something has to conclude soon?! I did read yesterday it has been confirmed for a fourth series so probably not.
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Post by peggs on Jul 27, 2019 12:37:16 GMT
I found this compelling but not sure I want to watch loads more series of June inadvertently dispatching people in her bid for her child. Do love Moira and Emily's wife. DC power couples on whole new level of disturbing.
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Post by sf on Jul 27, 2019 19:09:10 GMT
Maybe this will be part of his downfall What worries me is that they cut off fingers for reading, arms for sacrilege, what for homosexuality?....
Execution, usually by hanging. Gilead's term is "gender traitor", and the punishment is death - unless you are a woman with viable ovaries.
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Post by justfran on Jul 27, 2019 21:51:58 GMT
In which case, might we see Fred on The Wall?
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Post by peggs on Aug 12, 2019 19:36:00 GMT
You have such deeper thoughts than me monkey, I just thought can we now tell Fred's a wrong un as he's wearing that terrible checked suit. And I'd quite like some scones and muffins. I think I'm tiring of it, I'd like the systems broken down and everyone out but not sure I'll last many more series.
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Post by londonmzfitz on Aug 13, 2019 10:04:38 GMT
I'm still watching, hanging on in there, but it's been hard going. I want to engage with the characters, I want to see just how awful Gilead can be (the sewn up mouths was a shocker). I think it's just a bit too slow right now. Lots of intense looks to camera.
Best moment was June's throw away line to Fred when he asked if she was OK "after ....". Had me cheering.
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Post by kathryn on Aug 13, 2019 10:10:31 GMT
A real dilemma this week. Commander Lawrence forced to commit the rape he was the architect of. The debate I have is whether showing his distaste for it was actually undermining the point of the entire show? The whole thing is about out-of-control dominant patriarchy, from a feminist viewpoint. If they now show that the patriarchy in fact have second thoughts, I'm not sure if I'm supposed to feel "oh good, come to his senses" or "then why the hell did you set this up in the first place and it makes you even worse that you do know right from wrong and do it anyway." Difficult. Basic feminist tenet is that patriarchy hurts everyone - even those it is set up to supposedly benefit. It's getting people who are invested in it to admit it that is hard. I thought this week's story was a good way of pointing that out - it may have sounded appealing/logical in abstract, but the reality is that The Ceremony is not designed to be a pleasant experience for anyone, male or female. Making sex purely about procreation is utterly dehumanising and joyless.
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Post by londonmzfitz on Aug 13, 2019 12:00:48 GMT
A real dilemma this week. Commander Lawrence forced to commit the rape he was the architect of. The debate I have is whether showing his distaste for it was actually undermining the point of the entire show? The whole thing is about out-of-control dominant patriarchy, from a feminist viewpoint. If they now show that the patriarchy in fact have second thoughts, I'm not sure if I'm supposed to feel "oh good, come to his senses" or "then why the hell did you set this up in the first place and it makes you even worse that you do know right from wrong and do it anyway." Difficult. Basic feminist tenet is that patriarchy hurts everyone - even those it is set up to supposedly benefit. It's getting people who are invested in it to admit it that is hard. I thought this week's story was a good way of pointing that out - it may have sounded appealing/logical in abstract, but the reality is that The Ceremony is not designed to be a pleasant experience for anyone, male or female. Making sex purely about procreation is utterly dehumanising and joyless.There was reference in this series - short and so quick I almost missed it - about female genital mutilation (on a quick google and I hope no-one in the office checks my internet history cos that'll have them wondering) in which Emily is being checked over by a doctor who says they can try and reconstruct some of the damage from the fgm. I think that's the sort of thing that could bear with a little more coverage, further evidence of the awfulness of Gilead; these handmaids are regarded as incubators for the ultimate goal of children and nothing else. Sew their mouths shut. On a lighter note, as a huge fan of West Wing, seeing Josh Lyman and Zoey Bartlet together makes me wish for more TV of that class.
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Post by sf on Aug 13, 2019 14:53:51 GMT
Wasn't Emily punished by FGM in season 1 - she was pictured in surgical underwear and we assumed she had been? Yes, that was Gilead's punishment for Emily having conducted an illicit same-sex relationship. Her lover (a Martha, I think) was executed (very brutally, in front of Emily); since she is fertile, Emily was sentenced to circumcision, although I don't think the word was ever used.
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Post by londonmzfitz on Aug 20, 2019 10:58:11 GMT
My groan about it being a bit slow going is forgotten. I loved the last episode, loads of good stuff! Pens and laundry trolleys and awesome Martha's!
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Post by peggs on Aug 27, 2019 22:56:40 GMT
Probably for the first time this series that episode made me want to immediately watch the next one. And totally had to hide behind hands for pen incident. But yeah loved that bit too monkey, most satisfying.
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Post by d'James on Aug 28, 2019 5:40:59 GMT
I’ve only just started watching the show. I finished Series Three the other day. I have a lot of thoughts and will write them down when everyone’s caught up.
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