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Post by tonyloco on Aug 20, 2017 12:43:44 GMT
Oops! Don't know what happened there. All this modern technology is too much for me.
What I wanted to say about what tmesis said was that part of the audibility of singers at Sadler's Wells and then the Coliseum back in the older days was the fact that a number of them were well-trained Australians, particularly wonderful artists like June Bronhill and Ronald Dowd. Melba's principal teacher, Mathilde Marchesi, particularly liked Australian pupils (she taught only women) because of the way they were able to enunciate words, although there is always the exception like Joan Sutherland in her droopy days – thank heavens she sorted herself out later in her career. But I digress. I also wanted to comment that in my experience of attending ENO at the Coliseum was that the sound was very good in the stalls and in the balcony but it became muddy in the dress circle and the upper circle, which made it hard to understand words when sitting in those parts of the theatre.
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Post by tonyloco on Aug 20, 2017 13:00:56 GMT
I have just read the article 'Why this is the future of opera' by Rupert Christiansen in today's Sunday Telegraph advocating what he calls 'concert staging' of opera. I have to admit that given my choice between some of the 'reimaginings' of recent opera productions imposed on the standard operatic repertoire in major opera houses and the 'semi-staged' concert performances that I have enjoyed enormously, I will plump for 'concert stagings' every time. I would hope this does not lead to the death of the traditional opera house but, as has been suggested more than once, something has got to change regarding the cost of mounting full-scale opera productions (often ones that fiercely divide opinion), the price of the tickets, the amount of subsidy needed and the ageing of the core audiences. Maybe this is the way forward, at least for the immediate future.
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Post by Dawnstar on Aug 20, 2017 19:53:33 GMT
I have just read the article 'Why this is the future of opera' by Rupert Christiansen in today's Sunday Telegraph advocating what he calls 'concert staging' of opera. I have to admit that given my choice between some of the 'reimaginings' of recent opera productions imposed on the standard operatic repertoire in major opera houses and the 'semi-staged' concert performances that I have enjoyed enormously, I will plump for 'concert stagings' every time. I'll second that. Some of the best performance I've seen have been semi-staged. As long as the signers have learn the score & aren't stuck behind music stands, I think a performance with no scenery & the minimum of props & costumes can be at least as good as a lavish production costing hundreds of thousands - and sometimes better, if the hundreds of thousands have been spent on hideous scenery, hordes of distracting extras, etc.
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Post by tmesis on Aug 20, 2017 20:19:20 GMT
I also agree. I'm not a fan of concert performances of operas but the simplicity of a semi-staging can often be far more affecting than some wilful director's 'take' on an opera. The semi-staged Ring cycle at the RAH done when the ROH was being re-developed about 20 years ago was fantastic. Also at RAH, a semi-staged production of Gluck's Orfeo at the Proms, done by Glyndebourne forces, with Janet Baker in the the title role, was in my top 5 ever greatest opera performances.
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Post by argon on Aug 20, 2017 20:48:31 GMT
Baroque operas seem to rule the roost where it comes to concert staging, the majority of Handel operas I've seen have been in this format.
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Xanderl
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Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Aug 22, 2017 8:03:28 GMT
The Opera North concert staging of the Ring Cycle was also excellent.
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Post by tonyloco on Aug 24, 2017 21:59:07 GMT
I have just posted the following on the 'Bat Out Of Hell' website but it is relevant to the ENO as well:
Here's a little bit of history for you all. I have been researching June Bronhill in the EMI Archives and I came across a memo dated 10 September 1958 from the EMI recording producer Norman Newell to the Managing Director of EMI Records Ltd just after Norman had recorded highlights from the Sadler's Wells production of 'The Merry Widow' with June Bronhill that was playing a summer season at the Coliseum, well before it became the home of Sadler's Wells Opera which then became English National Opera:
"I attended the last night of 'THE MERRY WIDOW' at the Coliseum prior to its tour and never in my theatrical experience have I seen any reception to equal the one they received on this occasion."
Those were the days!
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Post by tonyloco on Sept 8, 2017 13:03:03 GMT
Coming back to the basic question of saving the ENO, I have just got around to booking a seat for their new production of Aida. This is a major mainstream opera, of which I know and love every note. I didn't book earlier because I find going to the opera these days generally a major disappointment but I just couldn't resist Verdi's great feast of wonderful music. What do I find? Loads and loads of unsold seats for just about all the performances and even on the opening night, although the more expensive parts of the house are just about sold out, the Balcony, where one sees and hears extremely well at an affordable price, is still half empty. So I really wonder for whom is ENO at the Coliseum actually catering? Today I had an email from them about £20 tickets to 'Opera Undressed' for two performances of Aida but these tickets are only available to people who have never been to an opera at the ENO before in an attempt to find a new audience. I think this is confirming what I said in an earlier post that ENO should be in a smaller house and attracting an audience that wants to see the repertoire that they can do best and not trying to compete with the Royal Opera at Covent Garden. The clue is in the name: ENGLISH NATIONAL Opera.
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Post by tmesis on Sept 9, 2017 12:42:30 GMT
Coming back to the basic question of saving the ENO, I have just got around to booking a seat for their new production of Aida. This is a major mainstream opera, of which I know and love every note. I didn't book earlier because I find going to the opera these days generally a major disappointment but I just couldn't resist Verdi's great feast of wonderful music. What do I find? Loads and loads of unsold seats for just about all the performances and even on the opening night, although the more expensive parts of the house are just about sold out, the Balcony, where one sees and hears extremely well at an affordable price, is still half empty. So I really wonder for whom is ENO at the Coliseum actually catering? Today I had an email from them about £20 tickets to 'Opera Undressed' for two performances of Aida but these tickets are only available to people who have never been to an opera at the ENO before in an attempt to find a new audience. I think this is confirming what I said in an earlier post that ENO should be in a smaller house and attracting an audience that wants to see the repertoire that they can do best and not trying to compete with the Royal Opera at Covent Garden. The clue is in the name: ENGLISH NATIONAL Opera. Although I have almost given up on ENO, I too cannot resist Aida. It's got to be his most musically sumptuous opera. This new production can't be worse than their last one; a truly p*ss-poor effort, with ludicrous costumes by Zandra Rhodes. I remember their production in the late 70s, which the critics hated but I rather liked. It was kitsch, camp with a MGM style act 2 processional and more fake gold than in Julie Goodyear's bathroom but at least it looked like a bit of dosh had been spent. Even ROH have largely cheapskated in their last two or three productions, the one in the 80s with Ricciarelli and Pavarotti was particularly lacklustre. Well ENO don't have the money to do sumptuous so let's hope it's musically decent.
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Post by tonyloco on Sept 9, 2017 13:22:59 GMT
Although I have almost given up on ENO, I too cannot resist Aida. It's got to be his most musically sumptuous opera. This new production can't be worse than their last one; a truly p*ss-poor effort, with ludicrous costumes by Zandra Rhodes. I remember their production in the late 70s, which the critics hated but I rather liked. It was kitsch, camp with a MGM style act 2 processional and more fake gold than in Julie Goodyear's bathroom but at least it looked like a bit of dosh had been spent. Even ROH have largely cheapskated in their last two or three productions, the one in the 80s with Ricciarelli and Pavarotti was particularly lacklustre. Well ENO don't have the money to do sumptuous so let's hope it's musically decent. Good summing up, tmesis. I saw an Ellen Kent production a few years ago which looked quite amazing, with some additional changes of scenery that certainly out-gilded Julie Goodyear's bathroom but the musical standards were lower than Mike Baldwin's morals. I'm only going for the music so as long as it sounds good I will be happy but I do hope they haven't changed the setting from ancient Egypt to the Vietnam war.
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Post by Mr Snow on Sept 9, 2017 18:54:54 GMT
Will be there 3rd October and if its good 19th.
Happy to buy any of you a drink.
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Post by Mr Snow on Sept 22, 2017 7:43:54 GMT
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Post by Someone in a tree on Sept 22, 2017 12:15:05 GMT
Agree. It's now much more stready, financially but one can't help wonder what is going on in that barn of a theatre / organisation ...
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Post by Snciole on Sept 22, 2017 15:25:37 GMT
I've only been to the ENO twice. Once to see Jenufa and the other to see Bat Out of Hell. Really shocking how empty their operas are. I feel they've done a lot to get new audiences but in my opinion the production of Jenufa was so sparse (staging, not just audience) that I wasn't rushing to go back.
BOOH, as we all know, did incredibly well. I speak as someone who was expecting a bit of a mess. It can't rely on shows like that under the ENO banner and even if it does become the face of limited run musicals the place is so large it needs The Lion King-esque guarantees of audience numbers. It is such a lovely venue and I don't think they are doing anything wrong but there are inefficiencies which haven't been tackled.
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Post by tonyloco on Sept 28, 2017 16:02:25 GMT
OK folks. I am just setting off for Ancient Egypt at the Coliseum tonight and I will report later as to whether I think ENO is currently worth saving! Will it be "Heavenly Aida" (Celeste Aida) or "Mercy O Gods" (Numi pieta)?
TL
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Post by tonyloco on Sept 28, 2017 23:56:24 GMT
Sorry folks, I enjoyed very little of tonight's 'Aida' and I left in the single interval after the Triumph Scene. I was siting right in the centre of the Balcony in F29 but it seemed a long way from the stage and I suspect that my days of sitting in places like that, including the Amphitheatre at Covent Garden, have now come to an end.
I think had I been more pleased with the performance musically it might have been different, but there were only two principals that I felt were getting their performance up to me and that was Aida (Latonia Moore) and the High Priestess (Eleanor Dennis). The Radames (Gwyn Hughes Jones) had no place in a house as big as the Coliseum, certainly not in a heroic part like Radames, and the Amneris (Michelle DeYoung) seemed to be taking part in some oratorio that was certainly not called Aida. She sang the music reasonably well but I could detect no emotion or drama in either her singing or her acting so the scene where she tells Aida that Radames has been killed in battle was meaningless and went for absolutely nothing so you wondered why Aida was so upset! The Ramfis was not powerful or sonorous enough and neither the King nor Amonasro made much impression on me but perhaps that's because I was too far away from the stage, plus the fact that Amonasro had to give his entire performance in Act 2 from inside a cage (a bit like the start of the second act of Bat Out of Hell) so that rather limited what he could do.
I thought the production team had made a lot of effort in trying to do it well but the costumes, although elaborate, made absolutely no sense at all. Aida's frock looked quite regal and nothing like what a slave would wear and Amneris was dressed all in white like a large vanilla ice-cream for reasons which completely escaped me! The Priestess in the second scene of the first act seemed like she should have been in a Cirque de Soleil show, with her dazzling red costume and lots of attendants squirming around with red silk banners going up to the sky. Lovely, but not very ancient Egypt! As to the Triumph Scene, well again I was mystified as to what was going on. There was no attempt at any kind of triumphal march or procession, despite all that wonderful music Verdi wrote for a triumphal march. Instead, we had what looked like a troupe of small soldiers from North Korea briefly doing what small soldiers from North Korea do and then they started doing things that left me baffled although I know in the end some flags got unfurled and waved about. Oh, the six onstage trumpeters were splendid but without anybody marching triumphantly they seemed a bit unnecessary. By the way, the chorus was terrific in the first scene and in the Triumph Scene but sang too softly in the second scene. I know it's meant to sound very beautiful and very mysterious but it should nevertheless be audible. Perhaps the conductor still needs to get the acoustic measure of the house but exactly how a conductor is meant to do that I really don't know.
But, believe me, I would probably have enjoyed it quite a lot, or at least modified rapture, had the orchestra been half way decent but alas, it was just rubbish. I can't remember when I have ever heard an opera orchestra, or indeed any orchestra, so poorly balanced and play so oddly. I have to lay the blame for this at the Canadian lady called Keri-Lynn Wilson, who seemed to have absolutely no idea what the score should have sounded like. To be fair, her tempos were generally OK but it was the total overall sound that was so weird. For a start, I could barely hear the upper strings in the prelude, just an occasional bit of scraping, and then when Radames started the recitative for 'Celeste Aida' the brass almost blew me out of my seat. And so it went on. In the two solo orchestral bits – the Blackamoor Dance and the Ballet in the Triumph Scene – I hardly recognised any of the tunes because what I was hearing were the wrong parts of the orchestra. Maybe it is my hearing that is at fault, but the last few times I have set in the Balcony at the Coliseum has been for Russian ballet companies and the orchestras have always sounded superb.
Maybe if I sat in the stalls the principals would have made a better impression on me, but I think I would still have been put off by the terrible orchestral balance. Pity, because I really did want to enjoy it.
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Post by tonyloco on Sept 29, 2017 13:01:20 GMT
PS Regarding the ENO Aida, I have to congratulate the tenor on executing an excellent diminuendo on the final high B flat in 'Celeste Aida' as written by Verdi, but the rather lukewarm reception from the audience showed that he might as well not have bothered and he probably would have got more applause had he sung it fortissimo!
And the reviewer in the Guardian has explained that the strange items brought on during the Triumphal March were flag-draped coffins of Egyptian warriors killed in the war in Ethiopia. I should have twigged that but, as the reviewer also remarked, some of the things in the first half were rather bewildering. He says the production improved in the second half and I know I should have stayed, but the sound of the orchestra was really bugging me, which is why I went home.
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Post by tmesis on Sept 29, 2017 17:25:13 GMT
PS Regarding the ENO Aida, I have to congratulate the tenor on executing an excellent diminuendo on the final high B flat in 'Celeste Aida' as written by Verdi, but the rather lukewarm reception from the audience showed that he might as well not have bothered and he probably would have got more applause had he sung it fortissimo! And the reviewer in the Guardian has explained that the strange items brought on during the Triumphal March were flag-draped coffins of Egyptian warriors killed in the war in Ethiopia. I should have twigged that but, as the reviewer also remarked, some of the things in the first half were rather bewildering. He says the production improved in the second half and I know I should have stayed, but the sound of the orchestra was really bugging me, which is why I went home. That's an incredibly difficult diminuendo to pull off and, especially live, most (including Pavarotti when he did it at ROH) don't even attempt it. I'll be seeing it in about a fortnight's time ...
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Post by Dawnstar on Sept 29, 2017 18:35:15 GMT
Having just read all the broadsheet reviews, plus tonyloco's above, I'm glad that I won't be seeing this! I've never seen Aida live & would like to some time but this is evidently not a good one to start with.
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Post by tonyloco on Sept 29, 2017 22:17:41 GMT
Having just read all the broadsheet reviews, plus tonyloco's above, I'm glad that I won't be seeing this! I've never seen Aida live & would like to some time but this is evidently not a good one to start with. Actually, Dawnstar, you might be better off going to the Ellen Kent production of Aida as your first experience of seeing it live. At least it is basically true to what Verdi and Ghislanzoni wrote, or was the last time I saw it a few years ago. I was very critical of three of the principals (Aida, Amneris and Radames) although the three lower-voiced men (Ramfis, the King and Amonasro) were all excellent, as was the orchestra and chorus, and overall it gave a good impression of what a traditional production of Aida should be. And I do walk out of most things that I am not enjoying come the interval! This is a habit I picked up in the mid-1960s when I was not doing any piano playing but could be found every night of the week at an opera, a ballet, a play, a musical or a concert and holding down a day job as well. I decided that I needed as much sleep as I could get so I would leave shows in the interval if I was getting nothing out of them in the hope that the following night would prove more successful – and it often was! I have just read the rest of the reviews of the ENO production and it seems that I was the only person who thought there was something very wrong with the sound of the orchestra relating to its internal balance. I expect it sounds a lot better from the Front Stalls than it does from the middle of the Balcony but the critics don't sit up there with the hoi polloi!
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Post by tonyloco on Sept 29, 2017 22:20:58 GMT
That's an incredibly difficult diminuendo to pull off and, especially live, most (including Pavarotti when he did it at ROH) don't even attempt it. Kaufmann had no trouble doing it at will in that TV programme about tenors that Pappano presented a year or two ago. But Kaufmann is Kaufmann!
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Post by tmesis on Sept 30, 2017 10:26:06 GMT
That's an incredibly difficult diminuendo to pull off and, especially live, most (including Pavarotti when he did it at ROH) don't even attempt it. Kaufmann had no trouble doing it at will in that TV programme about tenors that Pappano presented a year or two ago. But Kaufmann is Kaufmann! Yes, I'm a big Jonas fan. I would say I've seen everything he's done at The Garden in the last 10 years, including an amazing Winterreise. I'm bereft because this seasons he's NOT COMING AT ALL.
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Post by Dawnstar on Sept 30, 2017 18:05:11 GMT
Actually, Dawnstar, you might be better off going to the Ellen Kent production of Aida as your first experience of seeing it live. At least it is basically true to what Verdi and Ghislanzoni wrote, or was the last time I saw it a few years ago. I was very critical of three of the principals (Aida, Amneris and Radames) although the three lower-voiced men (Ramfis, the King and Amonasro) were all excellent, as was the orchestra and chorus, and overall it gave a good impression of what a traditional production of Aida should be. I swore off Eastern European touring opera productions after seeing a dreadful Butterfly a dozen years ago. The only decent singer onstage was the Sharpless & who sees Butterfly for Sharpless? I'm in no particular hurry to see Aida live. I've heard it on the radio a couple of times & have only been so-so on it, in fact I'm so-so on a lot of Verdi.
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Post by tonyloco on Oct 6, 2017 13:38:32 GMT
I see that the Ticket Booth is selling £120 stalls seats for Aida tonight at £30, and there are no really duff seats in the whole of the stalls at the Coliseum. I think had I paid £120 for a stalls seat tonight for Aida and found the person next to me had paid only £30 I would be far from gruntled. It looks as if ENO are going to need more than banking on a popular success with Aida to save themselves.
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Xanderl
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Not always very high value in terms of ticket yield or donations
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Post by Xanderl on Oct 13, 2017 9:05:49 GMT
Virtually everything at the ENO ends up at TKTS for £30. I stopped booking in advance as a result (which of course then becomes a cyclic problem!) Booked secret seats for £20 for the new season for a couple of things so at least they have the advance booking even if they are getting less money!
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Post by tmesis on Oct 14, 2017 21:51:40 GMT
Re Aida at ENO - I didn't enjoy it at all. It's got to be bad if in such a magnificent opera you are bored most of the time but that was my overall impression. Vocally it was the worst I've ever heard. Michelle DeYoung was way past her best as Amneris and inaudible at times. If she'd been in pink she would have been the spitting image of Barbara Cartland. Gwynn Hughes Jones had a very monotonous tenor with no light and shade and definitely no Italianate ardour. Latonia Moore as Aida was the best but had little beauty of tone and was tiring to listen to.
The production was just wierd; the set looked more appropriate for The Magic Flute than Aida and I'm now fed of the mix of modern and period costumes in opera- it's become a cliche. Far too much action was done in front of the curtains at the start, the processional was laughablely cheap and inert and the final act looked just like the set of The Crystal Maze.
As one of my favourite opera critics of yore (Rodney Milnes) said of another production:
'A perfectly horrible evening...'
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Post by Someone in a tree on Oct 15, 2017 9:36:14 GMT
This production is terrible.
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Post by tonyloco on Oct 15, 2017 11:18:48 GMT
May I just ask where you were both sitting, tmesis and someone in a tree, for the ENO Aida? As I said in my review, sitting in the centre of the balcony I found nothing whatsoever to enjoy either musically or production-wise so I left in the interval.
But it occurs to me that before the lukewarm reviews appeared in the press, the entire run had sold just a handful of tickets so whatever the merits or otherwise of the production after it opened, it looked as if the London opera-going public had found nothing of interest in the prospect of an ENO Aida at the Coliseum, which raises the question yet again of who are the ENO catering for and what is their target audience?
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Post by tmesis on Oct 15, 2017 12:15:27 GMT
May I just ask where you were both sitting, tmesis and someone in a tree, for the ENO Aida? As I said in my review, sitting in the centre of the balcony I found nothing whatsoever to enjoy either musically or production-wise so I left in the interval. But it occurs to me that before the lukewarm reviews appeared in the press, the entire run had sold just a handful of tickets so whatever the merits or otherwise of the production after it opened, it looked as if the London opera-going public had found nothing of interest in the prospect of an ENO Aida at the Coliseum, which raises the question yet again of who are the ENO catering for and what is their target audience? This was last night and I was at the rear of the Dress Circle. The place was 2/3 rds full. The orchestra was horribly strident with brass drowning out strings in full tutti. The conducting was totally insensitive with no sense of line or rubato. In short it was sh*te!
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Post by tonyloco on Oct 15, 2017 13:02:05 GMT
This was last night and I was at the rear of the Dress Circle. The place was 2/3 rds full. The orchestra was horribly strident with brass drowning out strings in full tutti. The conducting was totally insensitive with no sense of line or rubato. In short it was sh*te! Glad to know that it wasn't just my failing hearing that registered poor orchestral balance, which I put down to the conducting.
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