419 posts
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Post by carmella1 on May 3, 2017 2:23:08 GMT
The West End does not need American/Hollywood stars they just need to cast properly. This was horrible casting from the beginning. Alfie is wooden, Katherine not qualified. Even Alfie and Michael Ball's concert is not selling the way they expected in NY. Actually terrible.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 6:18:03 GMT
The West End does not need American/Hollywood stars they just need to cast properly. This was horrible casting from the beginning. Alfie is wooden, Katherine not qualified. Even Alfie and Michael Ball's concert is not selling the way they expected in NY. Actually terrible. Actually yes they do. To fill the theatre and charge the prices they want they need to make the shows a real limited run event that people are willing to pay extra for. You need the perfect combination of star and show. Otherwise these shows are just a limited run revival without even a decent set and staging.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 7:02:42 GMT
You can cast properly *and* cast American/Hollywood stars. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive. Some Hollywood stars are even quite good.
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1,936 posts
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Post by wickedgrin on May 3, 2017 8:02:56 GMT
The casting has to be right clearly but I cannot think of any British stars big enough to fill the theatre at high prices.
However, cast Angela Lansbury as Madame Armfeldt in A Little Night Music with Catherine Zeta Jones as Desiree Armfeldt and watch a box office meltdown!
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449 posts
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Post by SageStageMgr on May 3, 2017 17:31:55 GMT
Seeing this tonight from the Gods...
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2017 18:25:11 GMT
This production is probably the best thing I never went to see.
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Post by crabtree on May 3, 2017 19:05:10 GMT
A Little Night Music at the ENO might just be the wrong venue. That's such an intimate piece.
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449 posts
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Post by SageStageMgr on May 3, 2017 20:03:25 GMT
Oh my God this is awful. Interval. Does it get better or should I go home?
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1,662 posts
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Post by fiyero on May 3, 2017 20:05:59 GMT
Oh my God this is awful. Interval. Does it get better or should I go home? The second half is shorter and has the guy from Only Fools and Horses in it
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449 posts
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Post by SageStageMgr on May 3, 2017 20:13:58 GMT
Oh my God this is awful. Interval. Does it get better or should I go home? The second half is shorter and has the guy from Only Fools and Horses in it Sold. This is f***ing dire.
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4,361 posts
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Post by shady23 on May 3, 2017 21:14:20 GMT
Oh come on, it really is not THAT bad.
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449 posts
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Post by SageStageMgr on May 3, 2017 21:24:18 GMT
Oh come on, it really is not THAT bad. Have you seen it? The first Act was just about the poorest I can recall seeing since The Far Pavilions. Absolutely joyless gulch. The second Act was thankfully hugely improved and the show seemed to find some heart. Overall a very poorly realised piece of theatre.
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4,361 posts
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Post by shady23 on May 3, 2017 21:40:40 GMT
I preferred the first act as I found all the star keeper stuff in the second bizarre.
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449 posts
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Post by SageStageMgr on May 3, 2017 22:01:54 GMT
Just out of "Carousel". The production is an ENO semi-staged affair; I think a definition needs to be created once and for all as to what this really means. Much like "Sunset Boulevard", this is to all intents and purposes "fully staged" with full sets and, this time, a revolve. I can't help but feel the semi-staged disclaimer is a gentle reminder to not expect full blown opera theatrics, given to season ticket holders and top paying sorts as a kind of pre-show waver. I didn't enjoy the design, but as with Sunset, I can't see how anyone could feel short changed. There is, however some dissonance between the enormous venue and the modest sized cast, which would leave opera buffs bemused - along with people in the Gods like myself tonight, who couldn't help but notice the large gaps in the stage.
To call the first act ropey is an injustice to hemp. My only other previous experience of Carousel was seeing a national tour starring Sam Kane - I'm not familiar with the movie although I know the songs and story - but the first act felt like it was in a coma. The songs come out of nowhere, with little provocation, slowing the plot into a standstill.
Here, I should comment on Katherine Jenkins, who I think comes out of this train wreck okay - strangely, particularly with her acting! Her singing is entirely disconnected from her acting, as is so often with opera singers. But is Ms. Jenkins even a legitimate opera singer? Her vocals were gravelly and less than stellar. The same can't be said for Alfie Boe who is note perfect, but is terribly miscast as Billy. I found myself shutting my eyes and enjoying the huge orchestra and Boe's voice rather than looking at the boring visuals. With eyes shut, this production could pass for a good one.
The "pirate song", as I've just christened it, features some laughably dreadful camp choreography. Also, like much of the first act, it was completely unnecessary, out of place and gave me at least a little entertainment.
It was only the prospect of Rodney which kept me for the second Act, and in truth I'm happy I stayed. The pace and energy of the show improved tenfold. I actually really enjoyed the final forty minutes or so, where the plot comes together (or takes a ridiculous twist, depending on your perspective)
There's no doubting something is rotten, even Kismet rotten, at the core of this production. The first Act is unforgivable and some of the staging is atrocious, hurt by a dated book where people really do burst into song for no reason, but nothing is done to address of obvious drop of energy when a random song starts. An improvement in the second Act is tied in closely to an improvement in the source material. Some nice staging emerges too; the creation of the carousel by the dancers was a genuinely impressive moment.
But no, don't see this. It's dated, the staging is naff and the performances forgettable.
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Post by Mr Snow on May 4, 2017 5:45:39 GMT
To call the first act ropey is an injustice to hemp. My only other previous experience of Carousel was seeing a national tour starring Sam Kane - I'm not familiar with the movie although I know the songs and story - but the first act felt like it was in a coma. The songs come out of nowhere, with little provocation, slowing the plot into a standstill. Its one thing to criticise a production and quite another to say the songs come out of nowhere. "The Bench Scene" i.e. where they meet, is commonly cited for as breaking new ground for (musical) theatre as a way of evolving a story through music, naturally. It was highlighted in the recent BBC4 series on musicals. I marvelled once again, at the way it unfolded. Something was out of tune that night and likely it was you. Carosel is one of the great glories of MT, despite many problems. That said, I agree with many of your comments re scale.
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1,119 posts
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Post by martin1965 on May 4, 2017 6:02:14 GMT
Just out of "Carousel". The production is an ENO semi-staged affair; I think a definition needs to be created once and for all as to what this really means. Much like "Sunset Boulevard", this is to all intents and purposes "fully staged" with full sets and, this time, a revolve. I can't help but feel the semi-staged disclaimer is a gentle reminder to not expect full blown opera theatrics, given to season ticket holders and top paying sorts as a kind of pre-show waver. I didn't enjoy the design, but as with Sunset, I can't see how anyone could feel short changed. There is, however some dissonance between the enormous venue and the modest sized cast, which would leave opera buffs bemused - along with people in the Gods like myself tonight, who couldn't help but notice the large gaps in the stage. To call the first act ropey is an injustice to hemp. My only other previous experience of Carousel was seeing a national tour starring Sam Kane - I'm not familiar with the movie although I know the songs and story - but the first act felt like it was in a coma. The songs come out of nowhere, with little provocation, slowing the plot into a standstill. Here, I should comment on Katherine Jenkins, who I think comes out of this train wreck okay - strangely, particularly with her acting! Her singing is entirely disconnected from her acting, as is so often with opera singers. But is Ms. Jenkins even a legitimate opera singer? Her vocals were gravelly and less than stellar. The same can't be said for Alfie Boe who is note perfect, but is terribly miscast as Billy. I found myself shutting my eyes and enjoying the huge orchestra and Boe's voice rather than looking at the boring visuals. With eyes shut, this production could pass for a good one. The "pirate song", as I've just christened it, features some laughably dreadful camp choreography. Also, like much of the first act, it was completely unnecessary, out of place and gave me at least a little entertainment. It was only the prospect of Rodney which kept me for the second Act, and in truth I'm happy I stayed. The pace and energy of the show improved tenfold. I actually really enjoyed the final forty minutes or so, where the plot comes together (or takes a ridiculous twist, depending on your perspective) There's no doubting something is rotten, even Kismet rotten, at the core of this production. The first Act is unforgivable and some of the staging is atrocious, hurt by a dated book where people really do burst into song for no reason, but nothing is done to address of obvious drop of energy when a random song starts. An improvement in the second Act is tied in closely to an improvement in the source material. Some nice staging emerges too; the creation of the carousel by the dancers was a genuinely impressive moment. But no, don't see this. It's dated, the staging is naff and the performances forgettable. Not sure what you were expecting but liked it and dont recognise the show you are describing
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1,119 posts
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Post by martin1965 on May 4, 2017 6:06:05 GMT
The West End does not need American/Hollywood stars they just need to cast properly. This was horrible casting from the beginning. Alfie is wooden, Katherine not qualified. Even Alfie and Michael Ball's concert is not selling the way they expected in NY. Actually terrible. Actually yes they do. To fill the theatre and charge the prices they want they need to make the shows a real limited run event that people are willing to pay extra for. You need the perfect combination of star and show. Otherwise these shows are just a limited run revival without even a decent set and staging. As has been said above this is in no way "semi staged". What show would you suggest?
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Post by oxfordsimon on May 4, 2017 6:08:55 GMT
There is a massive structural problem with the plot of Carousel. Dramatically there is very little plot development in the first half that really lands with any dramatic power. Billy woos Julie, he wins her, then finds out that he is going to be a father and freaks out. Yes, there is some lovely music and some innovation in terms of how that music is interwoven with the narrative - but essentially there is no big dramatic climax to keep the audience on the edge of their seats.
For me, the end of the first Act should be the death of Billy. That is the real emotional climax of the first part of the story arc. The fact that this comes part way into Act 2 means the first half fails to satisfy me. Of course there is not enough plot after Billy dies to fill a full second half.
I have sat down with the script and the score to see if there is any way to restructure the existing material in order to deliver a more balanced piece and I could not find a way.
Perhaps once it drops out of copyright, someone will take it apart and remake it completely - but until that point, we are going to have to live with the many flaws. There are enough good tunes for me to enjoy it on CD but it is not a piece that works for me in the theatre.
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617 posts
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Post by loureviews on May 4, 2017 6:34:55 GMT
The pirate song was one of the highlights for me, even if it does feel as if it belongs in another show.
Any problems with the first act are purely down to Alfie Boe's acting in my opinion. You don't believe he and Julie falling in love.
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4,608 posts
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Post by Someone in a tree on May 4, 2017 7:03:49 GMT
I adore Carousel but I've always thought June is the wrong song. This production with its naff direction, technicolor set and jazz hands is terrible
I wish I had seen the NT production and the recent Arcola - both of which got amazing reviews. However I did love the Opera North production which did the work full justice.
The ENO production will be remembered for all the wrong reasons
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Post by Mr Snow on May 4, 2017 7:33:27 GMT
I adore Carousel but I've always thought June is the wrong song. This production with its naff direction, technicolor set and jazz hands is terrible I wish I had seen the NT production and the recent Arcola - both of which got amazing reviews. However I did love the Opera North production which did the work full justice. The ENO production will be remembered for all the wrong reasons I saw both those productions and one (or two?) others The same problems remain and I liked this production more than many here Perhaps because I wasn't expecting it to be any good Love June and I'd see if I could have it opening act 11. Clam bake is the one I hate
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600 posts
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Post by AddisonMizner on May 7, 2017 17:13:21 GMT
I saw yesterday's matinee of CAROUSEL (6th May), and here are my thoughts...
Firstly, the negatives! Yes, I completely agree with others that the acting is very hit and miss here, particularly from the two leads. There were more than a few moments in the dialogue scenes that did not land emotionally because of this. Also, the characters didn't feel as fully drawn as they could have been. Katherine Jenkins was certainly the best in the acting department (and I say this as a fan of Alfie), but this still left a lot to be desired.
However, I loved this production for one particular reason, and one that will make me remember it for many times to come, and that is...the music! The orchestra sounded simply glorious, and I had to literally fight back tears during the "Carousel Waltz". I was visibly shaking. This was helped by the absolutely stunning staging of this opening sequence (I will not give it away for those who have not seen it yet). As others have said, this is certainly not a semi-staged affair.
Every time the orchestra started up, I found myself welling with tears. This was this music as it was meant to be heard, and why this CAROUSEL was such an emotional sucker-punch to the gut. I was an absolute mess during the whole of Act Two, particularly during the Ballet Sequence (this absolutely broke my heart) and the final YOU'LL NEVER WALK ALONE. I have never cried so much in a theatre.
It was also (mostly) so well sung. Despite being a tenor in a baritone role, I thought that Alfie did really well. I would have liked a quieter IF I LOVED YOU (Reprise) at the end to Julie, as I think it is so much more touching (it is beautifully done in the film. Alfie belted this out, and for me it slightly ruined the moment, but other than this, he did rally well. He was running up and down ladders during the SOLILOQUY and didn't miss a note. Katherine Jenkins was also not too distracting. Brenda Edwards as Nettie was not to my taste, but I prefer a "classical" sounding voice in this role. This score is made for "legit" singers.
So, top marks for the English National Opera Orchestra, who absolutely made this CAROUSEL for me, packing its emotional punch in its beautiful music.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2017 17:55:23 GMT
Hmm. Im potentially in London Thursday evening, seems a shame to miss this production and it closes on Saturday. What do people think are the chances of seats being left on the night?
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1,119 posts
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Post by martin1965 on May 7, 2017 18:06:44 GMT
I saw yesterday's matinee of CAROUSEL (6th May), and here are my thoughts... Firstly, the negatives! Yes, I completely agree with others that the acting is very hit and miss here, particularly from the two leads. There were more than a few moments in the dialogue scenes that did not land emotionally because of this. Also, the characters didn't feel as fully drawn as they could have been. Katherine Jenkins was certainly the best in the acting department (and I say this as a fan of Alfie), but this still left a lot to be desired. However, I loved this production for one particular reason, and one that will make me remember it for many times to come, and that is...the music! The orchestra sounded simply glorious, and I had to literally fight back tears during the "Carousel Waltz". I was visibly shaking. This was helped by the absolutely stunning staging of this opening sequence (I will not give it away for those who have not seen it yet). As others have said, this is certainly not a semi-staged affair. Every time the orchestra started up, I found myself welling with tears. This was this music as it was meant to be heard, and why this CAROUSEL was such an emotional sucker-punch to the gut. I was an absolute mess during the whole of Act Two, particularly during the Ballet Sequence (this absolutely broke my heart) and the final YOU'LL NEVER WALK ALONE. I have never cried so much in a theatre. It was also (mostly) so well sung. Despite being a tenor in a baritone role, I thought that Alfie did really well. I would have liked a quieter IF I LOVED YOU (Reprise) at the end to Julie, as I think it is so much more touching (it is beautifully done in the film. Alfie belted this out, and for me it slightly ruined the moment, but other than this, he did rally well. He was running up and down ladders during the SOLILOQUY and didn't miss a note. Katherine Jenkins was also not too distracting. Brenda Edwards as Nettie was not to my taste, but I prefer a "classical" sounding voice in this role. This score is made for "legit" singers. So, top marks for the English National Opera Orchestra, who absolutely made this CAROUSEL for me, packing its emotional punch in its beautiful music. I agree about that opening sequence, amazingly done!
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1,936 posts
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Post by wickedgrin on May 8, 2017 8:03:54 GMT
BIG discount! TKTS are offering £110 stalls seats for £50 for tonight.
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2,051 posts
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Post by infofreako on May 8, 2017 8:13:40 GMT
BIG discount! TKTS are offering £110 stalls seats for £50 for tonight. ENO often drop below half price at tkts. It may drop even lower as the day goes on. I've paid £30 in the past at tkts for that sort of price band
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4 posts
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Post by tracyk on May 8, 2017 18:31:27 GMT
Hmm. Im potentially in London Thursday evening, seems a shame to miss this production and it closes on Saturday. What do people think are the chances of seats being left on the night? I used Todaytix and got ticket for Thursday at £35.00 in the upper circle so you may be able to get something on the day using TodayTix or TKTS or even the theatre itself.
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8 posts
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Post by shabbytigs on May 9, 2017 0:20:56 GMT
I adore Carousel but I've always thought June is the wrong song. This production with its naff direction, technicolor set and jazz hands is terrible I wish I had seen the NT production and the recent Arcola - both of which got amazing reviews. However I did love the Opera North production which did the work full justice. The ENO production will be remembered for all the wrong reasons I saw both those productions and one (or two?) others The same problems remain and I liked this production more than many here Perhaps because I wasn't expecting it to be any good Love June and I'd see if I could have it opening act 11. Clam bake is the one I hate
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8 posts
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Post by shabbytigs on May 9, 2017 0:29:29 GMT
I saw the Opera North production at the Barbican about 5 years ago which was a great production, but the Morphic Graffiti Production at the Arcola was wonderful. Amazing what was achieved in such a small space.
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419 posts
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Post by carmella1 on May 9, 2017 22:56:12 GMT
Since you are mentioning this aspect of the show which I never liked. In the movie when Louise is talking to Julie she says he slapped her but it did not feel like anything at all and Julie agrees. Do they say this line because it does make it seem that beating your wife is ok because she does not feel it. Terrible.
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