571 posts
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Post by westendwendy on Sept 7, 2016 9:26:54 GMT
Alas my point is proven... Unless stated it is all about interpretation!!
All the worlds a stage guys - keep it stress free and love to all xxx
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1,008 posts
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Post by talkstageytome on Sept 7, 2016 9:55:00 GMT
The actor in the original cast on Broadway and in London have both been black, as was Chiwetel Ejiofor in the movie. I think the writers intentions for those lyrics are perfectly clear to those not purposefully choosing to ignore them.
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Post by d'James on Sept 7, 2016 10:38:16 GMT
The lyrics in English do suggest that Lola is black. ('That's me, ebony.') We do not know what the Swedish lyrics suggest unless someone can literally translate them for us. Translating lyrics can be very difficult and sometimes end up quite clumsy and words and inferences have to be changed to keep the rhythm and rhymes in the same place. If those references were deliberately removed, then there's a big problem. It's very odd that they've cast a white Lola. Did no black actors audition - I guess we'll never know. Maybe the film isn't that well known over there so the audiences won't know that Lola's skin colour has changed. In the Korean production, they didn't have a black Lola either. Maybe the main producers/owners of this show need to step in and make sure that the references to Lola being black in Land of Lola are kept (if possible in the same place or somewhere else in the song if necessary) when they're translated in future. Since the issue was raised, the more I've thought about it, it does make a difference Lola being black AND a drag queen, turning up in straight/white Northampton. (P.S. I do hope that billyboy will reconsider and come back at some point in the future.)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 10:38:36 GMT
Also it takes some SERIOUS stubborn willpower to insist on a BAME performer taking a role traditionally played by a white performer being exactly the same as a white performer taking a role traditionally played by a BAME performer. While we're heading to a future where skin colour doesn't matter, we are coming from a past where - for better or worse (pretty much always worse, tbh) - skin colour *has* mattered. Society as a whole needs to see visible diversity on our stages. Sitting back and saying "yeah, we colourblind cast this, what a weird coincidence that our cast is whiter than the Partridge Family" might not technically be a backwards step, but it certainly isn't a forwards step, and forwards steps are what we need.
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525 posts
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Post by Hamilton Addict on Sept 7, 2016 15:22:22 GMT
Whether I find billyboy to be correct or not, I think is irrelevant. I just don't think anyone should be insulting other board members (let alone a new member) like that, it just isn't right.
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3,057 posts
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Post by ali973 on Sept 7, 2016 15:56:01 GMT
Correct, Baemax. I would just like to add that skin matter still DOES matter, but more or less it only matters to people whose skin color is used against them or to their disadvantage. Those who don't have this experience are easy to dismiss it and simply don't think it's an issue at all, because it isn't for them.
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2,041 posts
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Post by 49thand8th on Sept 7, 2016 16:01:13 GMT
I honestly don't think my response was out of place. I am genuinely happy for someone who is so self-involved, clueless and blinded by privilege to have no problem with with overt case of whitewashing, disregard for performers of color, depriving them of already scarce opportunity and making them invisibile. Must be nice to live in that world. I'm actually rather amused that I'm the only one who flagged it and for everyone's flagrant disregard to it, and then to be the bad guy for calling out someone who is is actively supporting it. Ha, I would have if I'd bothered to look at the thread before now. Sorry one of the immediate responses was a rolled-eye emoji. As the esteemed orator Christine Daae once said, you are not alone. (Also, how many times have we seen anyone on a message board say they're leaving and then... they don't?)
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4,369 posts
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Post by Michael on Sept 7, 2016 16:38:18 GMT
I honestly don't think my response was out of place. I am genuinely happy for someone who is so self-involved, clueless and blinded by privilege to have no problem with with overt case of whitewashing, disregard for performers of color, depriving them of already scarce opportunity and making them invisibile. Must be nice to live in that world. I'm actually rather amused that I'm the only one who flagged it and for everyone's flagrant disregard to it, and then to be the bad guy for calling out someone who is is actively supporting it. Ha, I would have if I'd bothered to look at the thread before now. Sorry one of the immediate responses was a rolled-eye emoji. As the esteemed orator Christine Daae once said, you are not alone. (Also, how many times have we seen anyone on a message board say they're leaving and then... they don't?) (posted without my moderator's hat on)Actually, I didn't want to post anything on this topic, but since you took up my rolleyes emoji: I'm not having a problem with what Ali said but how he put it. His posts went from arrogant and rude to mean and insulting - and even hurt making his point. It's OK to disagree with someone, but please put it nicely in a way in which you expect to be addressed from others. I'm sure poor Billyboy had no idea why he was attacked and what he supposedly did wrong. Had Ali worded his post as talkstageytome did, everything would have been fine. Again: It's the how and not the what.
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525 posts
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Post by Hamilton Addict on Sept 7, 2016 16:59:50 GMT
Ha, I would have if I'd bothered to look at the thread before now. Sorry one of the immediate responses was a rolled-eye emoji. As the esteemed orator Christine Daae once said, you are not alone. (Also, how many times have we seen anyone on a message board say they're leaving and then... they don't?) (posted without my moderator's hat on)Actually, I didn't want to post anything on this topic, but since you took up my rolleyes emoji: I'm not having a problem with what Ali said but how he put it. His posts went from arrogant and rude to mean and insulting - and even hurt making his point. It's OK to disagree with someone, but please put it nicely in a way in which you expect to be addressed from others. I'm sure poor Billyboy had no idea why he was attacked and what he supposedly did wrong. Had Ali worded his post as talkstageytome did, everything would have been fine. Again: It's the how and not the what.
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3,057 posts
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Post by ali973 on Sept 7, 2016 17:07:25 GMT
You know, this isn't exactly a civil rights situation and too superficial to quote the great MLK, Jr. but I think it should be shared because clearly billyboy's suffering is really all what matters and that the style I used might not have been measured. How very familiar, how very cliche.
"the [sic] moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;
Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will."
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525 posts
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Post by Hamilton Addict on Sept 7, 2016 17:32:42 GMT
You know, this isn't exactly a civil rights situation and too superficial to quote the great MLK, Jr. but I think it should be shared because clearly billyboy's suffering is really all what matters and that the style I used might not have been measured. How very familiar, how very cliche. "the [sic] moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;
Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will."But why should your opinion be the right one and the one which promotes justice? You don't know why billyboy had these thoughts, why didn't you ask him? I really just wish we could all respect each other's opinions, but alas, it doesn't look like this will happen. Instead insults are thrown. That is all I shall be posting on this subject now, just wanted to put this out there.
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3,057 posts
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Post by ali973 on Sept 7, 2016 17:53:27 GMT
You misunderstand. The quote is directed at people who took views as yours and not specifically at billyboy. Sorry, this is clearly a lost cause. Moving on..I don't even like Kinky Boots.
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Post by d'James on Sept 7, 2016 17:56:59 GMT
You could have told him why his post was wrong and challenged him and brought him round to your way of thinking about the issue of whitewashing. That's just not going to happen now.
Billyboy may have been completely oblivious to the problem and instead of getting angry and condescending at him for that, you could have educated him. With the current situation, no one is better informed.
It is clearly frustrating and upsetting to you that people are oblivious to the problem, but as I've already said your way of dealing with those people is not going to achieve anything. That's why I don't think your quote is relevant, because your 'direct actions' haven't led to anything better or got any way towards the desired end result and wouldn't in most situations.
Edited to add: as you have said you are moving on, so am I.
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4,799 posts
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Post by The Matthew on Sept 7, 2016 18:44:02 GMT
That's enough.
This thread will reopen when people have had a chance to calm down.
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